Talk:Vetar
Speculation * The ''Vetar may have been the Cardassian cruiser brought into the Delta Quadrant by the Caretaker prior to the 's arrival, mentioned in . That ship was later returned to the Alpha Quadrant.'' What is the basis of this speculation? Why this ship, and not some random other Cardassian vessel? --OuroborosCobra talk 01:02, 5 September 2006 (UTC) No justification, away it goes. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:57, 9 September 2006 (UTC) :Dvp7 just re-added this :*''It was revealed in that a Cardassian ship entered the Delta Quadrant at roughly the same time as Voyager, however it isn't said if it was this particular ship, although it most likely was.'' :Now, I honestly don't think we can take Seven's word for it that the ship was there. She was sort of gorked out, remember. Also, I don't think the ship she showed Chakotay was the same one. I'm'a delete it - again. --TribbleFurSuit 02:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC) Pna-inaccurate, reference in "The Voyager Conspiracy" There isn't clear evidence or dialogue to establish that the Vetar was the same ship Seven found in "The Voyager Conspiracy" (nor the Vetar the same ship as in "Caretaker" for that matter). Exact dialogue is as follows: :"I've analyzed the hull geometry and warp signature. It was one of the same '''ships' that were pursuing Chakotay and his crew in the region known as the Badlands."'' Emphasis on plural ship's'''. Furthermore Seven states: :''I believe that for some unknown reason the Caretaker had sent this ship back to the Alpha Quadrant and that Commander Chakotay attacked the vessel before it could reach its destination. He downloaded its computer core and discovered the presence of the Caretaker's array. He realized that the array could be used by the Maquis as a weapon, to launch surprise attacks against Cardassian and Starfleet vessels. Since Chakotay's ship was pulled into the Delta Quadrant immediately following the battle with the Vetar, this would have meant that the Vetar was taken to the Delta Quadrant before "Caretaker," returned, then went on to fight Chakotay, at least according to Seven's timeline. Per the discussion above from over a decade ago, Seven's analysis of the situation was quite unreliable. Clearly there was a Cardassian ship brought into the Delta Quadrant but suggesting that it was the Vetar is no more than speculation. -- Roscoe3400( TALK ) 06:55, December 28, 2019 (UTC) :Yep, the page definitely shouldn't say that. I'm also curious as to how it is tied to Caretaker. If it's just because Evek is on it, I'm not sure that's enough. -- Capricorn (talk) 21:05, December 30, 2019 (UTC) :: That's a nice unsupported opinion. :: First of all, using Seven's speculation as evidence while simultaneously refuting Seven's evidence is self defeating. So is using incomplete factual quotes. :: The entire episode was a wink and nod regurgitation of the events in (with comparable gray areas to how was to retelling ), and while there may have been several ships involved in the search for Chakotay's ship, there is only one that was of any interest to the viewers. :: Where you left off on your factual quote, ending in "in the region known as the Badlands" is much more supportive to the events seen in "Caretaker"; that being "It was pulled into the Delta Quadrant by the Caretaker during that engagement." That is a very specific comment. :: Now I am only aware of one engagement with Chakotay and a certain specific Cardassian ship in the Badlands that can be verified. Not only that, but it was tbe only one that was at the same nearly exact location that Chakotay's ship and Voyager in the days between both aforementioned ship's being snagged up by the Caretaker; even Dreadnought "was heading in the same direction in the Badlands where the Caretaker picked us up." Making that location key. And none of that includes Seven's own speculation.--Alan (talk) 04:40, January 4, 2020 (UTC) While it isn't Seven's speculation, it is still speculation on our part, backed by assumptions only and not by any specific evidence. The only way this ship could conclusively be proven to be Evek's is if it were referred to by name/commander, if Seven used a singular "ship" consistently, or if the "engagement" Seven refers to was definitively meant to be the specific battle seen in "Caretaker." I certainly acknowledge there are good arguments to be made in favor of it being the same vessel and this may have been the intent of the writers but there is too much ambiguity around the timeline of events to make any definite connections, specifically because it seems like the Cardassian ship was in the Delta Quadrant before Chakotay's ship. I also agree that I should not have used Seven's evidence and then refuted it - the point I was trying to make was that we can't decide what is the truth, regardless of how questionable Seven's statements are. Based on what is said in the episode and supported by Neelix's data and Federation records, the Cardassian ship was involved in an engagement with Chakotay's ship at some point, taken to the Delta Quadrant before Chakotay's ship (possibly a "few days" before Voyager's arrival), vanished from the Delta Quadrant, then found destroyed in the Badlands around the same time as Chakotay's disappearance, possibly by the Maquis. The Cardassian ship must have been in the Delta Quadrant prior to Chakotay in order to support a.) Seven's claim to Chakotay that the Cardassians would have been meeting with the Caretaker at the same time Tuvok was planted aboard his ship and b.) Seven's claim to Janeway that Chakotay learned of the Caretaker after attacking and destroying the Cardassian ship. She could not have created either of these narratives if the ship was meant to be Evek's and taken at the same time as Chakotay. Neither Chakotay or Janeway disputed the timeline and I don't see how we can say Seven messed up the timeline while accepting her claims about the hull geometry and warp signatures. Further, while we are only aware of the battle shown during "Caretaker," it wasn't specified that the "engagement" referenced in "The Voyager Conspiracy" was meant to be the battle shown in "Caretaker" - I agree this may have been the intent, but we shouldn't make conclusions on behalf of the episode. There is nothing (proving or) disproving another battle before "Caretaker" or if Seven was using "engagement" as a collective term referring to the activities of all the Cardassian ships sent to hunt down Chakotay. Indeed Voyager, Chakotay's ship, Dreadnought, and the Cardassian ship were all pulled to the Delta Quadrant in the same general vicinity and this does suggest something special about the region. But this conclusion is also interpolation and again, doesn't discount the possibility that another battle with a different pursuing Cardassian ship took place in the same region prior to "Caretaker". On top of it all, there is also no support for the Vetar being the same ship in "Preemptive Strike" and "Caretaker." It certainly makes sense they would be the same vessel, but dialog and the scripts never identified it as such. -- Roscoe3400( TALK ) 08:41, January 4, 2020 (UTC) :@Alan, in your comment I just read a very well reasoned argument about why it is probably the Vetar. But so what? Ship pages are filled with notes on things that are probably the case, but still not taken as fact. -- Capricorn (talk) 18:33, January 4, 2020 (UTC)